Transcript
No, no, they have nothing to do with it.
Claire ParnetLet's move directly on to "V," and "V" is "Voyage," and this is the demonstration of a concept as a paradox because you invented a notion, a concept, one could say, which is "nomadism," but you hate traveling. We can make this revelation at this point of our conversation, you hate traveling. First of all, why do you hate to travel?
I don't like traveling because of the conditions for a poor intellectual who travels. Maybe if I traveled differently, I would adore traveling, but intellectuals, what does it mean for them to travel? It means going to lectures, at the other end of the world if need be, and with all that, this includes before and after, talking before with people who greet you quite kindly, and talking after with people who listened to you quite politely talk, talk, talk. So, an intellectual's travel is the opposite of traveling. Go to the ends of the earth to talk, which he can do very well at home, and to see people before for talking, and see people after for talking, this is a monstrous voyage. Having said this, it's true, I feel no inclination toward traveling, but it's not some sort of principle for me, and I don't pretend even to be right, thank God. Ok, so I ask myself, what is there, what is there for me in traveling? First, there is always a small bit of false rupture. I'd say it's the first aspect of: what is it that makes traveling for me quite distasteful! The first reason is: it's a cheap rupture, and I understand what Fitzgerald expressed: a trip is not enough to create a real rupture. If you want rupture, then do something other than travel because finally, what does one see? People who travel tend to travel a lot, and after, they are even proud of it. They say it's in order to find a father. There are great reporters who have written books on this, they did it all, Vietnam, Afghanistan, wherever you like, and they say bluntly that they all were in search of a father. They shouldn't have bothered... Traveling can really be Oedipian in that sense. Well, ok. . . I say no, that just won't do! The second reason: it seems that . . . I am greatly moved by an admirable phrase, as always, from Beckett who has one of his characters [Camier] say, more or less- I cite poorly, and it's expressed better than this: sure, we're all dumb, but still, not to the point of traveling for pleasure. I find this phrase completely satisfying: I am dumb, but not to the point of traveling for pleasure, no, not that dumb! And there is a third aspect of travel. You said, "nomad". . . Well, yes, I've always been quite fascinated with nomads, but precisely because nomads are people who don't travel. Those who travel are emigrants, and there can certainly be perfectly respectable people who are forced to travel, exiled people, emigrants. This is a kind of trip that it is not even a question of ridiculing because these are sacred forms of travel, forced travel. Ok, fine. . . But nomads don't travel. Nomads, to the contrary, quite literally, they stay put completely, all the specialists on nomads say this. It's because nomads don't want to leave, because they seize hold of the earth, their land. Their land becomes deserted and they seize hold of it, they can only nomadize on their land, and it's by dint of wanting to stay on their land that they nomadize. So in a sense, one can say nothing is more immobile than a nomad, nothing travels less than a nomad. It's because they don't want to leave that they are nomad. And that's why they are completely persecuted. And finally, the last aspect of traveling that doesn't make it very. . . There is a phrase from Proust that is quite beautiful that says: after all, what does one always do when one travels? One always verifies something. One verifies that a particular color one dreamed about is really there. And then he adds something very important. He says: a bad dreamer is someone who doesn't go see if the color he dreamed about is really there, but a good dreamer knows that one has to go verify if the color is really there. I consider this a good conception of travel, but otherwise. . .
Claire ParnetThis is a fantastic regression.
No, at the same time, there are trips that are true ruptures. For example, the life of Le Clézio at the moment seems to be a way in which he certainly operates a kind of rupture.
Claire ParnetLawrence. . .
There's [T.E.] Lawrence, yes, Lawrence... There are too many greatwriters I admire who have a sense of travel. Stevenson as well, Stevenson's travels aren't negligible. So what I am saying has no generality. I say, for my own account, someone who doesn't like to travel probably has these four reasons.
Claire ParnetIs your hatred of travel connected to your natural slowness?
No, I can conceive of very slow travels, but in any case, I feel no need to move. All the intensities that I have are immobile intensities. lntensities distribute themselves in space or in other systems that aren't necessarily in exterior spaces. I can assure you that when I read a book that I admire, that I find beautiful, or when I hear music that I consider beautiful, I really get the feeling of passing into such states. . . Never could traveling inspire such emotions. So, why would I go seek emotions that don't suit me very well, since I have more beautiful ones for myself in immobile systems, like music, like philosophy? There is a geo-music, a geo- philosophy, I mean, they are profound countries, and these are more my countries, yes?
Claire ParnetYour foreign lands.
My very own foreign lands that I don't find by traveling.
Claire ParnetYou are the perfect illustration that movement is not located in displacement, but you did travel a little, to Lebanon for a conference, to Canada, to the USA.
Yes, yes, I did that, but I have to say that I was always dragged into it, and I no longer do it because I should never have done all that, I did it too much. At that time, I liked walking, and now I walk less well, so travel is no longer a possibility. But I recall walking all alone through the streets of Beirut from morning to night, not knowing where I was going. I like to see a city on foot, but that's all over.